Friday, April 27, 2007

Forced vaccinations?

As you may remember, I am currently studying paediatrics.

Today we (the students) had to do some presentations on ethical issues we have come across while doing paediatrics.

One of the cases that was presented was of a little 4 year old girl.

I actually saw her a few weeks ago in the child development centre. She has spastic cerebral palsy, meaning that her arms & legs were very stiff and she had great difficulty moving them. She had bilateral leg braces on and walked with a special walking frame on wheels.
She also had very poor fine motor control of her fingers and couldn't really grip anything with her fingers (she could only do a palm grip, like babies under 6months).

She was also totally mute and couldn't say a word, and she is also developmentally delayed with her comprehension as well.

She was born healthy and happy, the 5th of 6 children; and neither her nor any of her siblings had and health or developmental concerns.

Anyway, about a year and a half ago she caught meningitis and got it very very badly; she was in a coma, hospitalised for about a month, and suffered irreversible brain damage.

Which is why she is this way now.


For me, the worst part of this tale is the fact that she got Meningitis C, which is basically the only type of meningitis that can be vaccinated against.

But she wasn't vaccinated.

Her parents had rejected all vaccinations for her and her 5 siblings. I'm not totally sure why, but something like they didn't believe in artifical medication, and wanted only 'natural' living and thought vaccinations were dangerous and unhealthy.


So this case was presented in our seminar today and we all had a talk about whether children should be forcibly vaccinated, even if it goes against the parent's wishes.

In law, a parent does have authority to say what treatment they want for their children...but as long as what they want is in the child's best interests and promotes the welfare of the child.


Because vaccination against very serious diseases does significantly decrease a person's risk of catching a disease, it can be argued that vaccination therefore does promote the welfare of the child

But in addition to this, not only do vaccinations prevent the vaccinated person themselves from getting the disease, but they also lead to 'herd immunity' -- meaning that the level of the disease in the entire community goes down, and so everyone else in the community is protected too.

Our doctor was telling us that since the vaccination against streptococcus pneumonia (the bug that can cause pneumonia and also another type of meningits) has become avaliable for children in England, the number of deaths of elderly people from this bug has also gone down.

So even if some vaccines are 100% effective, if everyone is a community is vaccinated, this will reduce the overall level of the diseases, and be better for everyone.

So if people stop taking up vaccinations, then the level of the disease in the whole population will increase, putting everyone at more risk.
This could be another argument is favour of forcibly vaccinating everyone, because it promotes population health.
'your choice tp not vaccinate your children, could put my children's health at risk.'


I know it may sound harsh, but a number of countries have actually run forced vaccination programmes when levels of disease started rising too much due to a drop in vaccine uptake. Italy for example did this a few years ago with the DPT and HepatitisB vaccine.

(HepB is not, contrary to some popular belief, solely a sexually transmitted virus. It is also transmitted via blood and in utero).

and quite a few countries have schemes to encourgae people to vaccinate, like in Australia families actually get financial bonuses if their children have had all their vaccinations, and in America I believe a number of state schools require children to be vaccinated before they come to school.

Being medical and all, I am definitly in favour of full 100% vaccination.
Sometimes I wonder why parents don't vaccinate their children; perhaps they don't quite understand the risks they are exposing their children too.

Yes, sometimes someone may have a very severe anaphylactic reaction to a vaccination, but, being honest, that is very very very rare.
The same thing could happen the first time a child is given nuts (and nut allergy is a lot more common than vaccination allergy!! I went to a talk just on Wednesday where the Allergy specialist doctor said that some 30% of children now have some form of nut allergy. Admittedly most are mild reactions.)

I mean, even something like measles, is a very very serious condition. I don't know if the people who reject measles vaccinations think that it's like chickenpox or something, but it certainly isn't!! Measles has about a 40% mortality rates, which is huge!! (vs. chickenpox which has a 0% mortality!)

anyway, perhaps forced vaccinations is a bit extreme, it certainly won't make the medical profession very popular in the parent's eyes; but perhaps something like financial incentives to vaccinate is a good idea.

So yeh, just some thoughts that came up in our discussion that I thought I'd share!
~~~

10 comments:

Mulier Fortis said...

Sometimes the objection to vaccination is a moral one: like it is developed and prepared using foetal tissue from aborted babies...

...just thought I'd remind people of that one!

Anonymous said...

Measles has a 40% mortality rate?

You honestly think between 20 000 and 40 000 people died from measles every year in the UK before the MMR was introduced?

"Since the MMR vaccine was introduced in the UK in 1988 the number of suspected cases of measles has fallen from between 50,000 and 100,000 cases per year to less than 10,000. The number of deaths from acute measles has also fallen from an average of 13 per year to only 4 deaths between 1988 and 1996"

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/measlesmrvaccine

antonia said...

Hi Mac!
I don't really know of any currently used vaccines that are prepared using foetal parts?

~~

Hi Annonymous!

"In tropical areas, particularly Africa, cildren become infected under the age of 1 year, and the mortality rises in consequence, reaching as high a figure as 42% in children under 4 years."

-pg480 "Medical Microbiology" 16th Edition, David Greenwood. Churchill Livingstone


Yes, admitedly, given that the average child in the UK is better nourished than your average African child, the mortality is the UK is probably less than 40%, but my point was to highlight that measles (contrary to popular opinion) is actually a pretty dangerous disease, and not akin to chicken-pox (which some people may think).

At any rate, given that the mortality and morbidity rates of a measles infection are significantly higher than the mortality & morbidity from the MMR vaccine (which is basically nil).....I would still say that vaccinating with the MMR vaccine is by far the wisest and safest decision for one's child.

:-)

---

erin said...

There are other concerns with vaccines other than their effectiveness to ward off certain diseases. For us, we've been very selective with the vaccines we choose to give Ambrose for a number of reasons. There are plenty of vaccines which use aborted fetal tissues/cells, and the truth is that many vaccines contain a fair bit of mercury. I don't know about you, but mercury isn't exactly the thing I'd willingly inject my kid with. On top of that, there are vaccines that doctors would encourage me to give my baby that are totally unnecessary--like the polio vaccine. In the last 25 years, the only reported cases of polio are cases in which the child became infected FROM the vaccine. And chickenpox...well, that just seems silly.
I'm not saying that I think vaccines are all bad, but I do think that we owe it to our children to give them a careful, realisitic examination.

Anonymous said...

Hey Antonia,

Go to cogforlife.org to find out which vaccinations contain baby parts and which do not. The Vatican also has a statement regarding vaccinations and baby cells. Essentially, the Vat says it is up to the parents but it also states that parents need to think about the common good, like what you have posted about. I had a really hard time with the MMR because of the aborted baby cells in it, but I ultimately decided that to NOT get my daughter vaccinated would not be just to the community at large.

I don't know why, but it seems there is a big movement amongst NFP Catholics to reject many vaccinations. I guess since I worked amongst people in 3rd world countries who did not have access to vaccinations, I value them much more.

Autumn said...

My daughter is non-vaxing. You may want to check out this website here: http://www.thinktwice.com/

Some of us, after having done a lot of research, believe that vaccines pose more harm to our children than disease, due to the amount of toxins in the vaccines, and the alarming links to cot death and developmental delay. It's not a decision taken lightly.

It's mainly the rubella vaccine which contains cells from aborted foetuses. It's ironic that a vaccine primarily designed to protect the unborn uses the unborn in its manufacture! Where's the morality in that?

The problem with forced vaccination, is that some parents would feel they were being forced to inject their children with dangerous poisons.

Thanks for flagging this up, Antonia ~ I hope my comments have not offended you :)

antonia said...

Hi all!

Thanks for your comments! It is really very interesting to hear people's perspectives and views!

Autumnrose, no I am not at all offended!!! :-)

Please, anyone can feel free to say any point of view on my blog, I don't get offended!!

(with the exception obviously of vulgar sexual references or things insulting Catholics, Jesus, Mary etc etc)

Thanks all!

God bless
xxxx

antonia said...

Just to give individual replies...

* Erin;
Just a few things...

1. Since July 1999 none of the common 12 vaccinations that are given to children have conatined any mercury

http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/thimerosal.htm


In addition, there was never any evidence that the doses of mercury in the vaccinations were systemically harmful
(but it have been removed anyway)

I agree that the rates of polio have basically vanished in the Western world in the last 25 years. But the only reason for that is because of the vaccine in the first place, and not because the polio virus has become extinct.

Personally, I don't know enough about the current endemic levels of polio in the Western world to comment on what the risks are to non-vaccinated individuals living in the West.

However, if vaccination is still being offered as a routine, then that suggests that the virus is still around, and the reason it isn't so common is because people are vaccinated.

If a population on the whole radically dropped their vaccination-level, perhaps the polio virus would increase in prevelence again, and those who are unvaccinated would be the most at risk.

Also just for interest, they don't vaccinate against chicken-pox here in England!
Maybe it's just an American thing!


RCM:
yes, perhaps you are right about the 3rd world thing.
It is easy to become complacent about the seriousness of certain disease when you don't see them happening around you (which is in part thanks to vaccinations in the first place!)


AutumnRose:
Thanks for your comments!

From a medical point of view I don't think it is fair (or even true) to say that vaccines pose more harm than the disease.

The handful of tales of children suffering serious life-threatening allergic or negative reactions due to vaccines are minute and thankfully exceedingly rare.

and although the diseases in question are also uncommon (thanks to vaccinations), if a child were to get one of these diseases....well, for me, the knowledge that a pretty safe vaccination could have protected them from it, is very distressing.


Also, don't forget that vaccinations don't just proetct in childhood.
When children then grow up and go to University, or travel abroad, the fact that they are unvaccinated will continue to put them at risk!



Hope I haven't offended anyone!

Onbviously, as I study medicine, I come at this subject with a background of having seen these diseases in action and with some knowledge (biased perhaps?) of the use and functioning of vaccinations!

so it'd probably be a bit odd if I wasn't pro-vaccinations!

(...I don't think I have ever heard a doctor be against vaccines!!)

at any rate, it has been interesting to discuss!

God Bless!!

Rosemary said...

My pediatrician who is a strong Catholic told me that the chickenpox vaccine is made from aborted fetal tissue (one fetus, some decades ago.) I chose not to vaccinate since the disease is not life-threatening. Fortunately, eventually all my children contracted it and we had weeks and weeks of chickenpox-- everybody endured!

There is also the question of side effects. My son had a "moderate reaction" to his 5-year old DPT vaccine-- 105 fever, slept for 24 hours... later started having seizures. I know you can't assume a causal relationship because of the order of events. However... they were using mercury then and mercury is a neurotoxin. When I told my pediatrician I was nervous about the 5yo DPT for my other children he suggested we skip the pertussis. He said if any of them contracted petussis over 5 they would cough for months but it would not be life-threatening.

That's what we did. Guess what? Two of them did eventually contract pertussis and coughed VERY hard a few times a day for months. It was very bearable. I know pertussis does pose a risk to infants and I kept them away from babies.

Once you've seen one of your own children having a seizure you want to avoid anything that even MIGHT have had something to do with it. (He's fine now, by the way..)

Interesting post.

Anonymous said...

In reply to this comment:

1. Since July 1999 none of the common 12 vaccinations that are given to children have conatined any mercury

http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/thimerosal.htm

In addition, there was never any evidence that the doses of mercury in the vaccinations were systemically harmful
(but it have been removed anyway)


It does say that at the website, but it is untrue. I was in the ER with my son last night (May 12, 2007) and we refused the tetanus vac that contained thimerosal. The nurses and doctor didn't know what it was. The doctor couldn't even pronounce the word properly.

It (thimerosal containing mercury) is still in at least some vaccines, and it is being linked to dramatic the rise in autism over the past couple of decades. There is an enormous body of information regarding vaccine ingredients and reactions available online. Just google it for more. To claim otherwise these days to just shows one has not taken the time to sufficently research both sides of the issue.

There is a reason they make you sign a statement that says you understand that you cannot sue the manufacturer of the vaccine, in the event of an adverse reaction. If you could it would be in the news every day.

Watch this video, "Vaccines - The Hidden Truth" for more on the other side of the story.

Tracy
Organic Foods Mom